The SPLA-IO has of late been grappling with internal contradictions which became public late last week after the outfit’s Chief of General Staff, Gen. Simon Gatwech Dual, suspended his director of military intelligence, Maj. General Dhiling Keak Chuol.

The suspension was immediately revoked by Dr. Riek Machar. 

Radio Tamazuj caught up with Gen. Simon Gatwech, who is in the Magenis area along the common border of Sudan and South Sudan, and sounded him out about a broad array of issues plaguing the SPLA-IO.

Below are edited excerpts:

Q: We called you because we heard that you suspended your director of military intelligence and your boss Dr. Riek Machar immediately reinstated him. Why did you give that directive and what is happening in SPLA-IO? 

A: Yes, I am the Chief of General Staff of the whole of SPLA-IO. I suspended the Director of Military Intelligence for several reasons. He brought firearms for soldiers secretly without informing me who is the Chief of Staff. He brought military supplies without my knowledge and in secrecy. This is why I suspended him, because of these reasons. He brought firearms, vehicles, and other supplies without my knowledge. He has also not been coming to my place, the headquarters. 

He diverted all the food and supplies of our forces. He has a large force in the Malakal area, about 60,000 forces. He promotes soldiers without my knowledge. How can you promote a warrant officer to a Brigadier? He even promotes people who are outside of the country, abroad in Europe, and then they give him money. What kind of officer is this? And he does not report to my place that is why I suspended him until these administrative issues are resolved. And the letter reinstating him is not from Dr. Riek Machar. The language in that document is not that of Dr. Machar. 

Q: Did you communicate with Dr. Machar on this issue? Did you inform him before or after you suspended Gen. Dhiling Keak Chuol?

A: I informed Dr. Machar about five to seven days before I took action. I asked Dr. Machar if he knew about the military supplies that had been brought. Then the phone line cut off. I called again and he did not answer. I called again four more times and he did not pick my calls until I wrote him a message on his WhatsApp asking about what the supplies are. Again I wrote him another message that I had suspended this officer of mine because of these reasons. I enumerated the itemized reasons. I told him that this issue has to be resolved. For me, I am in the bush. I am not inside there in Juba. He (Machar) is there as the First Vice President and he still says he is the Commander-in-Chief. The Commander-in-Chief is Salva Kiir. 

Q: If you told Dr. Machar that you had suspended the director of military intelligence, why did he write a message to all SPLA-IO units revoking your directive? And how do you know that the message was not from Dr. Machar and yet it was signed by him?

A:  That letter from Dr. Machar is a forgery because the letter I wrote to and reached him was dated and had a reference number. But that letter was written by the young men around him. 

Q: So, did you follow it up with Dr. Machar? Did you ask him if he was the one who wrote the letter reinstating the military intelligence director?

A: I have been looking for him by telephone and it does not go through and yet he has received my dated and referenced letter. 

Q: So how sure are you then that it is not Dr. Riek Machar who wrote the letter countermanding your directive suspending the director of military intelligence?

A: It is not Riek Machar who wrote that letter. I even know those who wrote the letter. It is Bangoang and his (Machar’s) adjutant. It is not Dr. Riek Machar who wrote it at all. The letter is a forgery. Dr. Riek would have called me on phone. And I am calling him and he does not answer my phone calls.

Q: So, is it your directive that is still in force?

A: Yes, because all my soldiers are still with me. I don’t know about those soldiers who have not been on the ground or in the training centers. If weapons are being distributed, then let all the soldiers appear on the ground before that. We have troops who have been undergoing training for two years now. They have completed their training and they have not been given weapons. So weapons should be supplied and distributed with clarity and not underground and in secrecy. This will lead to robberies, violence, and destruction. We should arm the troops who have been trained in the known centers. 

I am here at the General Headquarters with a force. Even Gen. (Johnson) Olony is at his base with a force. If arms are being distributed in our areas of command without our knowledge then that is not an organized army. Armies are not run like that. The forces I command, even the ones of Gen. Olony, have not graduated, and yet we are SPLA-IO Viva of Dr. Riek Machar up to now. Will there be a parallel force, never. These firearms should be given to the forces in the gazetted training centers who are supposed to go to Juba. 

If we continue like this, the peace agreement will collapse. And who is responsible? It is Dr. Riek and his group who now live in Juba.

Q: Have you formed a committee to investigate Gen. Dhiling Keak Chuol, your intelligence director? Perhaps he was also just following directives from above, from Dr. Riek or another authority, about distributing supplies and firearms?

A: The Chief of Staff is the head of the army. He informs the big man in the event of an issue. A time will come when we will constitute a committee. This is a very serious issue because the supplies have lethal and dangerous items. We will form a committee later, not now, because I am in the bush.

Q: What will happen if the letter was written by Dr. Machar instructing that the director of intelligence is not suspended? What will you do?

A: I suspended the director of military intelligence for very clear reasons, but the letter purportedly written by Dr. Riek said Gen. Gatwech Dual suspended all the intelligence officers in the Divisions, Brigades, and Battalions. I did not write anything like that. The record is straight. It is the devil who went and wrote those things. So it is not Dr. Riek who wrote that letter because I only suspended the director of military intelligence. 

Q: But what if Dr. Machar says he wrote the letter revoking your directive?

A: It is also possible that he may have delegated someone in his office to write that letter. If that is the case then I will say okay, he (Dr. Riek) might be right. But the language used down there is not the language of Dr. Riek. It does not correspond with the letter I wrote to him. I did not suspend all the military intelligence personnel, only the director. And I informed all units. 

Q: There have been accusations against you of holding meetings without the knowledge of your boss, Dr. Riek Machar, and that any time soon you are going to announce a new rebel group. What do you have to say about this?

A: I hold meetings with my soldiers from time to time. Soldiers cannot just be left to be idle. I also hold administrative meetings with my soldiers and keep them on parade. All my soldiers and I are SPLA-IO Viva-Dr. Riek Machar. I and Gen (Johnson) Olony. They keep asking me to go to Juba but I have said I will only go to Juba when these forces who have been trained for several months have graduated and been armed, then I will go to Juba immediately.

They keep saying I should go to Juba but I have said I will go when my forces have been armed. In the past, people died in Juba. On 8 July 2016, we were shot at without any problem and people died. Until we had to go with Dr. Riek to the Democratic Republic of Congo. These are the issues in my mind which they do not want. I say no because I have not forgotten the events of 2013 and 2016. Let the peace agreement be implemented, let the soldiers be graduated, armed, and deployed in Juba then we go and work as a government. Then we have one unified army and one Chief of Staff. Dr. Riek is momentarily in Juba, what has been achieved?

Q: Do you have any message for the people?

A: To all the people of South Sudan, I am simply following what has been written in the peace agreement. I am for peace and love peace. Some people do not want peace, these are the people causing chaos. I want peace with all my heart. Tell the whole world this.